Despre bursele electronice de transport

The forwarders need a freight exchange to enlarge their carrier list and to find the best transport solution. Their daily work is simplified by posting the loads into the freight exchange because they do not need to call the carriers any more, the carriers will call to get the transportation deal. From the freight exchange point of view, the forwarders are the posters.

The second category of freight exchange clients are the carriers. They use the freight exchange to find a load when they have no transportation orders from their current clients. It’s also another way to make business when they totally count on the freight exchange to find loads for transportation. The freight exchange refers to  them as consultants – of the loads posted by forwarders.

The third category of client is the merchants and manufacturers who have a limited operation of transport which they decide to process themselves instead of applying to a forwarding company. Many of the freight exchanges do not permit access to this category of client, to protect the forwarders. But 123cargo welcomes this type of customer – and for very good reasons!

For forwarders, merchants and manufacturers, the main advantage of a freight exchange is the access to a large number of transport suppliers with minimum communication costs. By posting a load once, the load can be consulted in the following few minutes, byaround 500 carriers (consultants). With the freight exchange they achieve the same result as they would by calling 500 different carriers to find the transport solution.

For carriers, the freight exchange offers the opportunity to have a selection of a large number of customers.

The main risk of any remote close of a deal, by electronic means, leaves the feeling of uncertainty regarding the partner. This risk might be mitigated by both, the freight exchange and the users of the freight exchange.

The freight exchange itself, and we consider here 123cargo, takes as first mission in serving its customers to offer a Safe Market Place. By checking the access of new subscribed companies. By offering scores for all the companies. By immediately eliminating from the freight exchange all those who might put at risk the other customers.

The users of the freight exchange have to protect themselves against signing with inappropriate partners by following internal procedures in their companies. If these procedures do not exist, these procedures should be implemented or at the very least, by following the safety rules recommended by 123cargo.

BursaTransport is the name given to 123cargo for its Romanian users.

BursaTransport is the original freight exchange, launched in 2001 in Romania. 123cargo is the simplified freight exchange, launched in 2013.

The huge number of customers in Romania forced us to develop some sophisticated services in BursaTransport.

123cargo offers a pack of essential features as per the original BursaTransport.

The bond is complete. The loads to be carried and the available trucks are common lists between the two interfaces of the same application.

The two different interfaces of the same software run on the same database.

ALPEGA is the group of jointly owned companies. ALPEGA includes 123cargo / BursaTransport, Teleroute, Wtransnet.

The 3 Alpega’s freight exchanges, Teleroute, Wtransnet and 123cargo, send each other the transport requests (loads) posted by their users. The exchange is online and in real time. The initiative was launched in March 2023. Alpega is the only European group with 3 freight exchanges, each of them with at least regional impact, which adopt this measure in favor of its users. 

The advantage for users is that by paying a subscription to 123cargo, they have access to loads not only from 123cargo, but from three freight exchanges.  This is a unique situation in Europe.

The eligibility conditions are conditions that the company must meet if it is interested in expanding its list of consultable loads from those posted on the freight exchange to which it subscribes to the loads posted on all Alpega freight exchanges. The conditions are imposed by the security standard for electronic transactions valid in the Alpega group. Through this standard, Alpega limits the risk of fraud and non-payment incidents of transport services.  The eligibility conditions imposed by 123cargo are transparently mentioned when attempting to consult a load originating from Alpega, without the service being activated yet.

The service is activated at the initiative of the subscribing company once the eligibility conditions are met. The service remains active until the current subscription expires. The service is accessible to all users of the company.

By accessing the Register tab. It is a 1-2-3 steps registration during which you should provide information about your company and yourself.

No, it is not possible: Non Romanian resident companies will register with 123cargo, while the Romanian companies will register with BursaTransport.

As many as you want, all users are included in the same subscription.

The 123cargo subscriptions are prepaid services. You will process the payment based on the proforma invoice that you get yourself from 123cargo. The invoice for the payment is delivered on the collection day.

There is no difference.

A new user is defined by accessing the Administration Panel

In order to get a new password, use the link Forgot password in the LOGIN popup. An automatic message will arrive on the e-mail address linked to the user, which will provide a temporary password. After the successful login, you can go to My information where you can change the temporary password received from the app.

Negative. The application is a B2B (business to business) platform.

In the Administration Panel, by accessing the My Contact Person Details box.

You should register all those who are using 123cargo. The more detailed you describe these persons, the more comfortable will  your future partners be by getting in touch with your company.

In medium and large companies, the person taking responsibility of the supplier’s payments is usually not the same person as the planner. Offering direct access to this person by 123cargo is a proof of trustworthiness and respect for your company.

It is an addition to the ‘’position’’ description. In the workplace, there can be more employees with the same roles but with different responsibilities: i.e. on the same role of the sender there can be 2 employees, one could handle national transport (function= national transport), and the other could handle international transport and maybe there is another colleague who is in charge of groupage. By mentioning these details you increase the accessibility of your company.

Telephone numbers (landline, mobiles, etc.) are common to all the contact persons from the specific location. Personal phones are only for the contact of a particular person.

The account of a user is deactivated by deleting the contact person to whom it is associated. The account of the first user of the company, the one who activated the company's access, cannot be deleted. But the contact person's information can be modified.

This service saves you from repeatedly sending your documents to future transport partners. Once uploaded on the platform, they can be consulted by those interested, i.e. your future partners.

In the page dedicated to company documents, in my company data. The operation does not require the interference of the administration team. The documents are not validated by the administration, they are available under your own liability. When uploading, you are asked to specify the category of each document.

Licenses and insurances that are usually requested by transport partners.

Any user with active access to the platform.

Before they become visible on your profile, the system applies to each document the so-called "watermark" - an image that cannot be detached from the image of your document. In addition, when a user consults a document and downloads it from 123cargo, the watermark includes (the document is marked) the identity of the user who downloaded it and the date. Therefore, the document cannot be used by a third party who wants to steal your identity in relations with its customers/suppliers. Also, as a security measure, the app has a log of all consultations and downloads of your own documents.

There are 4 kinds of subscriptions in 123cargo (1month, 3 months, 6 months and 12 months) which include access for all the users of the company. 123cargo is a prepaid service. You can download yourself a proforma invoice. The subscription is activated on the collection day and on the same day the invoice is delivered electronically.

If a current subscription exists already for the company, the new subscription is activated at the end of the current one.

For fraud, for not repeatedly respecting the conditions of the site, and in case that the company represent a commercial risk for the other users of the site.

The list is an internal warning list of 123cargo. It prevents all the subscribers with collection difficulties reported by the members. The difficulties reported are sustained by standard documents: transport contract, CMR letter and invoice. The declarations are processed by own responsibility in order to prevent the other subscribers. It is a voluntary contribution to a safer market place of transportation.

A payment delay is a payment which has not been settled within the maximum 60 days since its due date. If the debt is not settled in 60 days the late payment becomes a payment incident. In other words the delay is minor and the incident is major.

From consideration applied by debt recovering companies, who generally consider a case to be approachable only after 60 days of delay.

The first step belongs to the declaring subscriber. He declares and documents the incident with a transport order or transport contract, the CMR letter and the invoice. The second step is for the 123cargo Administration who check that the documents confirm the declaration. The third step is for the claimed company, who is informed by the Administration on the claim declared against it. During 8 days, the claimed company might shut down the incident by paying the invoice or might protest with their own reasons. In case that they are responsible, 123cargo deny the enlisting of the payment incident. If no other reaction happens, the incident is enlisted after these 8 days and the incident affect the claimer history in 123cargo.

The payment incident can be declared next day after the due date.

A transport incident is a occurrence produced by the carrier against the transport contract or against the good service practices.

The minimum documentation is represented by the transport order. Unfortunately, it is difficult to document transport incidents, so that any document which can support the claimer’s declaration is taken in consideration.

It is an internal system for measuring the actions of the users of each 123cargo company member and their activity history for the last 2 years, and for evaluating the trends for the last two months. The scoring is thought of as an informal tool for evaluating the partner in the transport transaction. The scoring strictly reflects the existing data in the database and does not constitute general evaluation attempts of the companies, but only on the basis of their actions in the platform. The scoring consists of 4 graphic ratings representing a group of stars, from 0 to 5. The scoring is displayed in the profile of any active company, with the following exceptions: access activated less than a month ago, complete and final suspension (membership withdrawal), more than 4 payment incidents in processing. 

Activity as a forwarder: assesses the typical actions of a freight forwarder. These are: spot posting and long-term loads, consulting the available spot and long-term trucks, consulting the list of consultants for their own posts. The recent evolution trend is also calculated for this indicator.

Activity as a carrier: consulting of spot and long-term loads, posting of spot and long-term trucks. The indicator is accompanied by the recent trend.

Contractual behavior as client (in transport agreements): the rating is downgraded by the number of produced payment incidents with a due date in the last two years and regardless of the fact that they were cleared without being published; the rating is also downgraded by the total number of days overdue in the mentioned payment incidents; the scores are related to the forwarder's rating obtained in the last two years. For a rating of ZERO stars as forwarder and no payment incident occurred in the last two years, N/A (not available) is displayed instead of some stars. The indicator also has a recent trend marking.

Contractual behavior as a supplier (carrier): the score is downgraded by the total number of active transport incidents produced in the last two years related to the carrier rating for the last two years. For a ZERO carrier rating and no transport incident in the last two years, N/A is displayed. 

For efficiency, where an evaluation has to be made as a freight forwarder, shipper: are displayed only the ratings for forwarder and contractual behavior as client (poster of loads, consultant of their own truck posts). In other situations, the future partner needs to be evaluated from the supplier's perspective) poster of free trucks, the consultant of their own posted loads).

If the rating of contractual behavior as a client has 5 stars, in the last two years there have been no payment incidents in the last two years. If there have been incidents, even if they were immediately cleared, the rating is less than 4 stars. The fewer starts are displayed, the higher the number of incidents, the higher the total payment delays produced, and the less significant the activity as a forwarder. The information can be found in the company profile. The company profile can be viewed using the link on the company name, on any page of the application. If the company has active (unreconciled) incidents or overdue payments, this incident can be consulted in the list of payment incidents, searching based on the fiscal code of the author of the incident.

We recommend paying attention first to the 123cargo scoring, than to registration date in 123cargo, to company’s founding year and transport licenses.

Unlike scoring, which reflects the companies' interaction with 123cargo, the company reports are legal and financial information provided by Creditreform. These can be requested by all active members only for the companies with the registered office in Romania.

It is the maximum value without VAT that Creditreform calculates and recommends to be granted on commercial credit (invoice with maturity) to that particular company. The credit limit is calculated for the companies with the registered office in Romania depending on several factors, of which the financial results are the most important.

Risk of inability to pay. It is a marker calculated by CreditReform for the companies with the registered office in Romania depending on the company's financial results. It aims to bring on the same scale all companies that have public financial results. It is an indicative marker.

When someone calls and offers his truck to transport your load, if you do not know him, it is good to follow these pieces of advice.

Take your time and note the name, the phone number and the company name. We  advice you to  check the caller via the company profile. It is mandatory to find the name and phone number enlisted inside here. If you find no record, forget about the  offer. It could be someone who will attempt to steal your load with a truck with false license plates. This is the heaviest risk you have to deal with in remote transportation deals.

The more security measures that you can take, even if you find the company in the company profile the better. A regular company has a fax number. If they have an internet site, for sure they have also a mailing server: when there is no fax number and an email using yahoo/gmail as an address,  are circumstances which warn you to pay more attention. Also, when you receive emails or fax messages from the company interested in your load, check these numbers and email addresses are matching the ones on his company profile.

In any case do not take the transportation offer without these checks.

First check his 123cargo scoring, especially his Trustworthiness as customer score. If the company does not have a five stars score they might have some reported payment delays.

Then check that the company sending the transport order is the same with the company who published the load. If you confirm the transport on behalf of another company, you take considerable risk of a future delayed payment.

The last but not the least, read through carefully  the entire transport order to avoid surprises and abusive terms.

When publishing a load, it means how many days after the loading date the load is available if not erased from 123cargo by the owner.

It’s to describe how many metres long of a truck floor standard wide, will occupy the load in the truck. This is optional information which might help the carriers to organize groupage.

When publishing a load it means that the owner is interested by a grouped transport offer (LTL), instead of renting the whole truck (FTL).

These is information for owner use if needed, they are never published.

In parallel with the posting of the load as a transport request, the user can trigger a spot bidding to receive transport offers for its request.

When you post only the transport request, you will be contacted by the interested carriers. Contact is made by phone, email, chat or other alternative channels (WhatsApp for example). Your negotiation with those interested is done outside the application without the knowledge of the administrative team. When you post together with the load – transport request and an offer request you use the SPOT BIDDING service of 123cargo. The interest shown by the carriers and the negotiation is done much faster and efficiently, under the control of 123cargo, in real time, within the timeframe fixed by you, the one who launched the offer request. What you have negotiated and established with the bid winning user remains in your old bidding requests and in his old bidding offers. More information about spot bidding can be found in the Frequently Asked Questions about spot bidding and in the information page from the spot bidding menu in the main menu.

The offer request includes the load route (loading and unloading town), available calendar interval for loading, the necessary type of truck and the grouping system required.

Posters can register for easy reposting those load templates which are currently used in 123cargo. These templates are registered while publishing a load, by using the SAVE command.

By using again the same filtering elements, 123cargo rebuilds the list of answers considering as reasonable a bigger relocation of the truck.

The command is accessible only when the search is done on a route where at least one of the ends is a town. The command is not accessible to a country – country search. The Enlarge Search command can be operated only twice in succession after which it is no longer displayed on the page. The result after each action is the increase of the number of posted loads in accordance with the search specifications by increasing the allowable deployment. The new loads added to the list of answers are added at the end of the list because they involve an "instead Z city, around Z city" type deployment. It should be noted that if there are no results to the search raised, the software widens the search on its own initiative.

Through a push technology, the consultant receives new convenient answers according to his search, posted after he operated his search command.

If you tick the checkbox, after the load search, you will receive other loads newly posted after you have ordered the search. The new loads displayed have the NEW badge attached to the load ID. The process continues as long as your search remains active.

Except for mobile phones, each badge has an explanatory tooltip that becomes visible at the mouse over. The badges are of an operational nature (e.g.: new load, load reposted by the poster) or of an informal nature (e.g.: loads with active bidding, ProFx certified user)

When Destination section is left empty in a search, you’ll get all the posts available in the From place. And vice-versa.

When FTL status is selected, 123cargo selects the loads framing between 50% and 110% of the filter values. When the LTL status is used, the filter values are used as maximum values, with tones section exception, which might be filtered as a frame (minimum and maximum limits).

Unlike the spot loads that are only transported occasionaly, long-term loads are repetitive transport requests.The TERRITORY is the geographical area on which the demand for transport is made: domestic (domestic), within the European Union, or internationally - outside the European Union

You can open a new search tab with the + symbol next to the already existing tab(s). The difference created by the "all tabs" solution for searching for goods in a single browser tab is that, once automatic refresh is activated, you can see at a glance which new ads have appeared in the current searches.

This is the very purpose of separate search tabs.

If you have several loads to post, instead of using, successively and repeatedly, the „I have a load” form, you can post your loads through an XLS file. Instead of filling in the form, load the XLS file. The report regarding the success or failure of your posting will be emailed to you as soon as possible.

There is a standard, minimalist, bulk loads file available to you in the pop-up that appears after you hit „Upload bulk loads” button. If you want to define a more sophisticated bulk loads file to addressall the fields from the „I have a load” form , you can do that with your custom XLS file and at the first use of the CUSTOM XLS file structure, you will be asked to confirm the meaning of each column of your custom file as processed by our application. The platform can save as many custom bulk loads file  as you need.

The list of favourite ads is designed to help you remember, in order to contact the posting entities, those ads of immediate interest. For example, when organising a groupage. Adding to the list can be done, once the ad is consulted, by using the star in the route area. One click on the star adds the ad to the favourite list. The second click removes it from the list. The total ads in the favourite list can be seen in a marker at the bottom right of the screen.

Because the ad was deleted by the posting entity and, theoretically, it is no longer relevant.

By using the star in the route area.

It is the list of those companies whose ads you do not want to see anymore. Goods and trucks. Each with its own reasons.

In My company data, the Blacklist page. During the existence of the company in your blacklist, you will no longer see the ads of that company. You have at your disposal the blacklist and the user who added to the blacklist, as well as the adding date.

On the same page in My company data. The add/delete process is reversible and repeatable.

No.

The mandatory sections are marked with a small red star on their labels.

The truck posting form offers up to 5 alternative routes (5 destinations) for the same truck. To ease the posting of the truck.

FULL TRUCK LOAD, complete truck.

LESS TRUCK LOAD, groupage.

When FTL status is selected, 123cargo selects the trucks framing between 80% and 170% of the filter values. When the LTL status is used, the filter values are used as minimum values.

Strings or substrings of: company names, contact persons, company profiles. Also search of the phone numbers of the companies, by using the complete number with country code. Try is by finding your own phone number.

Yes. With the SEARCH MEMBER form. Enter the phone number you are looking for in the PERSONS, DESCRIPTION, ADDRESS section. The number entered must be complete, including the country code and no dots or other signs of separation. Try with your own phone number, as it appears on your company listing.

The logical condition AND applies between all completed fields. For example, if you filled in the country ROMANIA, CARRIER activity, and you ticked transport license and from the foreign language box you ticked Italian, you get the list of all Romanian companies that have declared to have as main activity carrier, that have the transport license declared and someone from the company speaks Italian. If you open the company popup (click on the company name in the list of answers), you will be able to verify that all the above elements are met.

To identify the companies holding (in their fleet, in their truck fleet) the type you are searching. It should be mentioned that between the eventual types mentioned in the same search (the FLEET box) there is the OR relationship. For example, if you select TIPPER and TILT, the list of answers will include the companies that have declared that they own a tipper OR a tilt. The same goes for the SPOKEN LANGUAGES box. If you select ITALIAN and GERMAN, in the list of companies you will find those in which Italian OR German is spoken, AND hold a tipper OR a tilt.

The list of all companies that have declared that they own one of the 3 types of warehouses defined on 123cargo. In the same idea, if you search for FLEETS without specifying anything as a filter element, you get the list of all companies that have declared that they own at least one transport vehicle.

The forwarder or the shipper posts a load to be transported. The posted load represents a transport request addressed to carriers in the situation of being able to transport it. The carriers search for the loads, identify the interesting ones and contact the poster to negotiate the transport. Communication is done through one of the traditional ways: via phone, email chat or alternatively, through WhatsApp. After some essential data are settled, such as the price and the payment term, the parties involved mutually accept them and promise each other: the forwarder / shipper, the order launch and the carrier, the order confirmation. From this moment, withdrawals or cancellations may occur, leading to impediments. This manner of communication and negotiation outside the 123cargo platform remains available to users when the spot bidding module appears.

The role of spot bidding is multiple. First, to shorten the time of identifying a transport solution for the forwarder/shipper and to find the load for the available truck of the carrier. Secondly, to make available to the parties involved the negotiation log that led to the successful closing of the spot bidding. Thirdly, to reduce the number of non-compliant situations that may occur after an initial agreement agreed between parties: a withdrawal or cancellation of the commitment manifested during the negotiation leads to a decrease in the user score in the spot bids.

A spot bidding is optionally triggered by the poster upon the posting of a load to be transported. The spot bidding term, in minutes, is decided by the requesting user. When the load is consulted by a carrier, interested in transporting it, it finds that the load is associated with a spot bidding. The carrier may submit an offer in its own terms and send it to the requesting user. The validity period of the offer is established by the offering carrier. The requesting user accepts the offer, rejects it or proposes a counteroffer to the offering user. The counteroffer is either accepted or rejected by the offering user. The entire process is carried out during the spot bidding set by the requesting user.

The spot bidding ends successfully if the transport request has received an offer accepted by the requesting user. Or if the counteroffer launched by the requesting user to the offering user has been accepted by the latter. The spot bidding shall end with the expiry of the time allowed at the launch of the offer requests if neither of the two situations mentioned above has occurred. Expiration also occurs if the requesting user has not responded to any offer received, or has not received any offer, or has rejected them or the counteroffering users have not responded or rejected. A special situation is when the bid winning user cancels his offer or retracts his acceptance on the counteroffer. In which case the requesting user has the opportunity to relaunch the transport request.

An offering user may only make one offer per offer request. An unlimited number of carriers can make offers on a given offer request. Therefore, the requesting user who launched the offer request, i.e. the spot bidding, may receive an unlimited number of offers from an unlimited number of offering users, but not more than one offer from the same offering user. Please note that an offering user is one user. Therefore, in the case of companies with multiple users, the requesting user may receive several offers from the same company, one for each user. The spot bidding is a process that takes place between users, not between companies that have subscribed to 123cargo.

Both the requesting user and the offering user are jointly and severally liable for the cancellation of the transaction established by mutual agreement. 123cargo will not open a mediation ticket to establish who is responsible. The downgrading makes sense in the perspective of the future participation of the two in the spot bids, for the information of their future partners. If the cancellation of the transaction occurred on the part of the offering user, the requesting user has the possibility to relaunch the spot bidding by reposting the load and the offer request.

Yes, the carrier can make multiple simultaneous offers to multiple offer requests. The first offer that is accepted puts the other offers in the situation of being withdrawn before being accepted in the others spot biddings in which they were made. This is possible if the carrier uses ALIAS in its offers: all offers with the same ALIAS can be deleted in bulk after accepting one of them.

Information taken from the posted load: the load route, the available calendar interval for loading, load tonnage, equipment required, grouping system requested. Secondly, mandatory information specified by the requesting user in the offer request: offered price (excluding VAT), proposed due date for payment, spot bidding duration (in minutes). Thirdly, optional information: specifying a date and time of loading located within the time frame in which the load is available for loading, the date and time of unloading. All the information contained in the offer request is visible to the consultants of the load for which the offer request was drawn up.

The mention of a deployment is intended to reconcile any differences between the route of the posted load and the actual loading and/or unloading. It is known that shippers/forwarders, for various reasons, post the load to be transported by approximately stating the position of the locations of loading/unloading. An eloquent example is the relatively current situation of declaring loading in Oradea, while the actual loading takes place in eastern Hungary. Or the load posted with Bucharest loading while the actual loading is in Giurgiu. Because the offer request will lead to offers, orders and order confirmations, the requesting user's declaration from the outset of a deployment included in the offered price is intended to calm the subsequent protests of the bid winning carrier, when it finds out the exact location of loading/unloading.

When drafting the offer, the carrier may submit its own conditions or accept the terms proposed by the requesting user. What the offer request contains is what the requesting user wants. What the offering user requests is mentioned in the offer. The fields in which the carrier may submit values other than those proposed by the requesting user are the mandatory information proposed by the requesting user (price, maturity, deployment obviously cannot be changed). The offering carrier may also express other grievances in the optional headings to the extent that the requesting user has made clarifications in those headings.

Mutual reviews are possible only between the poster and the carrier who have successfully closed the spot bidding. Reviews may be given within a reasonable period after the alleged completion of the transport. The review given by the poster to the carrier reflects the manner and accuracy with which the carrier performed the service. The review given by the carrier to the poster reflects the way in which it organized the transport: complete and accurate instructions, the ability to be contacted in carrying out the transport at the occurrence of non-compliant situations. The reviews granted are confidential and publicly displayed in a score that assembles several assessment criteria. It should be noted that the reviews do not address inaccuracies in compliance with the payment deadline, for which 123cargo provides the declaration of payment incidents.

It is important to note that this score reflects the quality of the USER in the spot biddings and not of the employing COMPANY. The score assembles the efficiency in spot biddings, the volume of activity in spot biddings, the reviews received and, as a penalty, the number of cancelled transactions in which it participated. For each of the mentioned criteria, the two possible capacities of the user, i.e. the requesting user and the offering user, are considered. In the absence of existing scales for the assessment of the 4 criteria, the minimum and maximum scales recorded by the users of the 123cargo are adopted as minimum and maximum of the scales.

The service must be contracted before the transport. Therefore, at least one day before loading. After carrying out the transport and issuing the transport invoice, you must follow the collection. When the collection occurs, you must inform the administration that you have collected. If the debtor customer does not respect the payment term, you have included in the collection guarantee service the declaration of the payment incident. If the claim is not collected through the procedure for declaring the incident, following the request that you have to make, a claim file is opened with the insurer Coface Belgium which has the effect of collecting 90% (guaranteed part) of the claim.

In case the debtor client becomes insolvent between the issuance of the invoice and the due date, the only legal way is to register with the list of creditors. The procedure has little chance of recovering the debt. The payment guarantee service will cover this perspective.

For very short operative communications with the poster of the load you are consulting. Or communication with your own post consultant. Chat is more operative than phone or email.

Write in the current language in which the page is displayed. The interlocutor receives automatically translated into the language in which he/she uses the application: Romanian, English and Bulgarian.

Yes

You can only chat with active users of the application. If your friends are among them, the answer is yes.